Lots of great questions were asked at Tuesday's event, so here they are, edited only slightly for spelling and clarity, for those who couldn't attend or just anyone who is curious. Thanks to the attendees for these great questions, and to Grace, Elliot, Matt, and Josh for their thoughtful answers.
If you are looking for the archive recordings, they will be available here for 90 days. Enjoy!
Q&A Session for Brain-Based Learning Virtual Summit
Session number: 253296298
Date: Tuesday, December 04, 2012
Starting time: 10:00 AM
FAQs about the event:
Q: Can you give me the twitter id for this?
A: Follow on Twitter @LearningDev (#ASTDBBL)
Q: Is there a book or review article you can suggest that reviews the information presented today?
A: Here are a series of links for each presentation today: http://www.neuroleadership.org/public/content.aspx?Page=astd-virtual-summit&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Q: Hi, you posted "To clarify, you can find additional content at this page:", but I don't see a link?
A: Web Site for this event: http://www.neuroleadership.org/astd-virtual-summit. This has additional content, but not the slides. The webcasts are being recorded with audio and visuals and will be available tomorrow at www.astd.org/webcasts
Q: handouts can be found where?
A: The slides are not available, but there is additional information at http://www.neuroleadership.org/astd-virtual-summit
Elliot Berkman: And the survey here: http://www.psy.miami.edu/faculty/ccarver/sclBISBAS.html
Q: Where do we get the article you just mentioned?
A: Web Site for this event: http://www.neuroleadership.org/astd-virtual-summit
Q: Can you repeat the questions that had three replies [from the attendees]?
A: Questions/instructions to encourage insights: How will you apply this? (list 3 ways)/What your you do differently?/List an observation and a question based on today's topic, then share with a partner.
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Q: Is there a difference in application when designing learning for college sophomore/seniors and adult learners?
Grace Chang: Yes, there may be some differences in application when designing learning for college students vs. adult learners. We know that the prefrontal cortex is not necessarily fully developed sometimes until the 20s. That would impact their attention processes. Also, because many younger individuals have grown up with more divided attention, we're just now starting to learn the impacts on cognitive functioning. Older learners also have more experience, so they have a more complex web of knowledge. This complex web of knowledge is more useful for making connections with new information, so adults tend to have more efficient learning processes.
Q: Is there a correlation between the “towards vs. away and the AGES model?
Grace Chang: The AGES model is just a model of the types of processes we need to consider (Attention, Generation, Emotion, Spacing) when thinking about learning and memory. If we're in a “toward” state, we're more likely to be able to learn and use our learning. For example, if we're getting positive feedback, that increases our sense of status, so it's like being rewarded. That affects our arousal and engagement and can have positive benefits on our attention. Then, because we are more attentive or focused, encoding is more likely. And that means it's more likely that we will later remember information.
Q: What about voice over narrations with text on the screen?
Grace Chang: If you're referring to having voice narrations that go with the text, that may actually help you if they are coordinated so the correct text appears with the voice at the same time because you're accessing 2 routes of information if they are (both visual and audio). However, if the text and audio aren't coordinated and mismatch in any way, that definitely is a distracter.
Q: is that multitasking or distraction?
Grace Chang: People probably wouldn't call that multi-tasking. They'd probably call that distraction, but that's just a semantic distinction. The reason why multi-tasking doesn't work is because one of the tasks is essentially acting as a distracter from the other task.
Q: It is difficult to get people to complete when doing online or virtual training. Any suggestion on how to get people to participate better in virtual testing?
Grace Chang: I think it's important to make learners aware of why repeated testing is more useful than spaced learning. If you frame it as being a tool to improve learning rather than being a test (which always has negative connotations), I think people will be less reluctant to do testing. The main reasons why people don't want to do test practice is because: 1) they think massing is better for memory, and 2) it's more difficult to be tested than to do passive studying. You can dispel the first myth and explain why some difficulty is actually desirable for learning.
Q: How does mandatory participation in a learning event impact attention and retention?
Grace Chang: Mandatory participation can affect autonomy of SCARF. If the person doesn't feel that they have a choice to participate, it puts them more in an "away" state, and that impacts learning and cognitive processing in general. One thing you can do is to try to give them as much perception of autonomy as possible. For example, if training is mandatory and there are multiple trainings they can go to, it's better to let them choose which to go to than to assign them to a specific training.
Q: Way to Increase Attention: on e-learning, add knowledge check questions after every 3-5 screens. These are no risk (not recorded) questions for which the right answer is provided within 3 tries.
Grace Chang: Thanks for sharing! Yes, having people generate information is helpful. Ideally there would be a little lag time before the generation because that makes people work harder to retrieve information, and that ultimately improves long-term memory more than if the retrieval is very easy.
Q: How does mandatory participation in a learning event impact attention and retention?
Grace Chang: Mandatory participation can affect autonomy of SCARF. If the person doesn't feel that they have a choice to participate, it puts them more in an "away" state, and that impacts learning and cognitive processing in general. One thing you can do is to try to give them as much perception of autonomy as possible. For example, if training is mandatory and there are multiple trainings they can go to, it's better to let them choose which to go to than to assign them to a specific training.
Q: For our entry-level jobs, certification in the core learning classes is mandatory in order to retain employment. Thoughts on that as a negative emotion?
Grace Chang: Yes, sometimes we can't avoid things that might induce a negative emotion. However, we can try to reduce the amount of negative emotion associated. For one thing, a lot of core learning classes are kind of dry and boring. I think introducing creative ways to present and test the material can lighten the mood. I also think that it helps if you make the learning more personal and give meaning to the learning. If they have to learn particular things, explain why it's important for their job, how they use it, and how it relates to them. When people see the purpose of doing things, it will cause less negative emotions. Rather than seeing it as busywork learning material they'll never use, they can see why it's important to try to learn that material.
Q: What is the difference between text and visuals used to increase recall of learning?
Grace Chang: They can both be used to cue recall. For example, if you want me to think of a circus tent, you might use the word "clown" or show me a picture of a clown. They both can be effective, but visuals often are more engaging and cause more processing than simple text because we're very visual creatures.
Q: What is the impact on sequencing?
Grace Chang: I'm not sure what type of sequencing you're referring to, but I’m assuming you're talking about the order of materials that are presented. Sequencing can definitely matter. We typically start out presenting background or broader information to set up a framework of knowledge that people can add to as they learn more detailed information. Also, the order of information reflects how organized the material is. People are much better at learning information that has structured organization than information that is haphazardly presented.
Q: Could you give examples of interweaving?
Grace Chang: Sure. In the real world, we don't just learn one set of information and then let time pass before using testing practice to encourage long-term memory. We typically have to learn lots of sets of information. For example, someone might interleave study or test sessions of material from a history class with study or test sessions of material from a math class. I didn't have the time to address this during the talk, but the type of material you interleave has to do with when it might be useful to use an expanding schedule of testing practice instead of regular intervals of testing practice. Expanding schedules of testing sessions seem to be especially useful when the material you're learning is more vulnerable to forgetting.
For example, if the material you are interleaving is very similar to the other material you're learning, they can interfere with each other, making material more vulnerable to forgetting. Workplace example: if you're learning one type of software program and you're using spaced testing to encourage long-term retention of the information, you would get more benefit from using an expanding schedule of testing practice if the interleaved learning (the learning that's between those testing sessions) is on a similar topic (e.g., knowledge about another software system) than if the interleaved material is more distinct (learning something completely different).
Q: Are these theories based on pedagogical or andragogical approaches?
Grace Chang: I'm not sure I would say that the theories are necessarily based on either of these approaches. These theories about attention, generation, emotion, and spacing are based on the neuroscience and psychology literature that's out there. We're using the science to drive the theories. There are some slight differences in how we'd approach learning with children and adults, but that's because of brain development.
Q: How does this time spacing impact learning for the Workplace where we don't usually use tests regularly?
Grace Chang: The idea behind spacing testing practice is that the memory has degraded a bit, but not completely. If we don't use tests regularly, it can make it harder to retain the information in the long run. For example, if you learn something and then don't do anything with it until you're tested on it 6 months later, a lot of the memory probably has degraded. A lack of testing practice isn't detrimental if people are going to use it right away, but they definitely won't do as well if there's a long lag before they use the information.
Q: A majority of the presentation seems to be gauged to students in an educational environment – can you relate the material to a corporate or business setting where testing is not applicable but application on knowledge is?
Grace Chang: Yes. The information is transferrable. Your ability to apply knowledge requires recall of the knowledge. If you can't recall the knowledge you need, you can't apply it. When I referred to the "final test" in the lecture, you can think of that as the time when someone needs to apply their knowledge. So the final test doesn't necessarily need to be a formal final test. Applying that knowledge they learned is also a type of final test.
Q: Do you suggest training different topics within a week (spacing)? For example, training someone on a register system one day, then deli another day?
Grace Chang: Yes, that's definitely one good way to do it. Interleaving different topics like that is an efficient way to incorporate spacing without wasting time between study or test practice sessions.
Q: Students need to pass performance tests in our workshops that are modeled after potential 'real world' interactions with customers. How do you help students with test "anxiety" who get so nervous that it might negatively affect their performance?
Grace Chang: I think this is one of the reasons why test practice is so useful. It's not just superior for promoting long-term retention of information, but it also more closely mimics the final test of the information. In the research literature on anxiety, there's a lot of research that looks at ways to desensitize anxious individuals. Preparing people for the final test situation is one way to deal with anxiety. For example, you could try to mimic some of the conditions of the final test during test practices.
It's important that the learner knows that the test practice is just practice for the event. That relieves some of the stress during the practice. The more practice they get in those situations, the better off they will be during the final test. For example, if they have some positive retrieval practice in the actual room that they'll later be tested in, they will associate the context of that room with successful retrieval and they will have the memory of the room as not being that terrifying because they were calm during retrieval practice.
Q: Is there a quick definition of 'interleaving' you can share, as used in this context?
Grace Chang: Sure. It's just the idea that during the spacing of training episodes (studying or test practice) of one type of learning, you have training episodes (studying or test practice) of another type of learning. For example, in between test practice session of math, you might want to have training episodes of another topic such as history. That's interleaving.
Q: How can you get the students to buy into learning goals?
Elliot Berkman: This is a big question. There are lots of things. For me, the biggest one is for students to take ownership; they need to believe that they want to learn whatever you're teaching. So tying your learning goals to their personal motivations is one way.
Q: Motivation: What is the effect of presenting both approach and avoidance goals to the same group?
Elliot Berkman: It's good! People will tend to focus on the goal that "resonates" most with them individually. So presenting both is a great way to try to cast a wide net and capture everyone.
Q: @Grace, and yet I work with several people who think they truly can multi-task. They refuse to believe the research.
Grace Chang: Yes, some people unfortunately don't believe you no matter how much research backs you up. The only way to make those people believe may be to actually demonstrate to them that they are NOT the exception. You can probably find simple experiments on the web that can help demonstrate that point.
Q: It has been shown that baroque classical music, at a certain tempo, can facilitate creative thinking.
Grace Chang: Yes, that is true. Some music (especially non-verbal music of certain tempos) seem to be useful creative thinking. One possible reason is because of the mood induced by the music, but there are probably other reasons as well.
Q: I share how the brain processes info when I train - people are usually fascinated by this - and that helps set the attention. This is useful info for that segment.
Grace Chang: Great! Yes, anytime you bring the brain into the conversation, people seem really interested. People tend to like to understand how the brain impacts behavior. I think a lot of people also respond well to empirical research. If you show them that there's a brain-based reason why you're doing things the way you're doing them, people tend to be more receptive to things.
Q: Business simulation games played after instruction seem to fall into the category of Generation.
Grace Chang: Yes. Thanks for sharing! These types of games are useful because, not only are you generating, you are applying the information and relating it to the learner and how the learner would use it. All of that will lead to better learning.
Q: Thanks for the opportunity to "generate"... this is a practice I build in to all my in-person learning experiences. For example, I ask participants to make up quizzes or test questions about the content we are covering. What do you think of that practice?
Grace Chang: Thanks for sharing! I think that's a good idea. If you have multiple learners, you could also use those questions on other people and ask them to generate answers. That's helpful because the questions those people created will probably be different from the question the other person created. Anytime you can encourage people to think more deeply about the material, you encourage learning.
Q: Who was the author of NUDGE again? Thanks! Great program!
Elliot Berkman: Nudge is by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein: http://www.amazon.com/Nudge-Improving-Decisions-Health-Happiness/dp/014311526X
Q: do you think Avoidance type of people will be the WHY kind and Approach type would be HOW kind? What part of the brain does the striatum belong to ...the PFC?
Elliot Berkman: I'm not sure about the first one, but the striatum is part of the subcortical basal ganglia, part of the limbic system.
Q: Thank you Grace. I am talking about the impact of sequencing on long term memory and spacing. I am looking for a greater understanding of how the information is corrupted by spacing versus the time to process in smaller chunks advantage.
Grace Chang: In terms of the chunking advantage, that has to do with how you organize information in your memory. If you can relate information together to chunk it, you can encode it more efficiently. (For example, encoding a phone number is much easier if you encode it as 3 chunks (3 digit area code, 3 digits, 4 digits) rather than each number individually. Because spacing refers to the distance in time between study or test practice sessions, it doesn't have that much to do with chunking material. For example, you could chunk that phone number when you're exposed to it, and then during each spaced test practice, you can try to recall the phone number as chunks. The memory of the phone number is less likely to degrade if it's chunked in the first place when you were encoding because it's like there's less to remember. It's almost like having to only remember 3 items (because they are chunked) instead of having to remember 10 full digits of a phone number.
The big issue with spacing is that too much spacing can cause too much degradation between study or test practice sessions. But if things are chunked in the first place, you could probably increase the space between sessions and still have about the same retrieval rate because of the chunking. I hope that addresses what you're asking.
Q: Got it. The Basal Ganglia is the seat of wisdom, our decision making emanates out of it...hence the Reward aspect works....thanks...Cheers...your session was fantastic and I appreciate the learning.
Elliot Berkman: Thanks! The BG is really more about habit learning and automaticity. First-time behaviors are more prefrontal.
Q: Can you give some examples of ideal spacing?
Grace Chang: I can try. The problem is that there's no clear formula because there are so many variables (e.g., how complex the information is, how vulnerable it is to forgetting, etc.). Complicating matters is the fact that different studies show different timing because the manipulations across experiments are different. The main rule is that the ideal spacing between study or retrieval test practice sessions should be longer if there's a longer period between the last study or test practice sessions and the final test or application of the material. For example, if the retention period (the period between the last practice session & the final test) is very short (e.g., 1 minute), then the spacing between the practice session should be very short (e.g., <1 minute).
If the retention interval is much longer (e.g., 6 months or more), you want more spacing between practice sessions. Some studies point to an ideal spacing of at least 1 month between sessions. The reason this spacing should increase is because it makes retrieval more difficult...and more difficult retrieval leads to longer retention of information.
Q: Doesn't affect labeling amplify the emotion?
Matthew Lieberman: In most cases, affect labeling reduces the emotional reaction, good or bad. There are factors that can modulate this though.
Q: So for affect labeling if you are a trainer and you had a bad morning before and you say, sorry I've had a bad day and I'm in a bad mood…then it will help you to not be aggressive to your participants?
Matthew Lieberman: Yes, I would agree with this completely. But you can also just say it to yourself and not tell everyone. That might affect how they interpret the rest of what you do in less positive ways.
Q: Aha. From an instructional message design perspective, was there a reason you chose the black background and white text?
Josh Davis: In general, I am a fan of dark background with white text when the screen is illuminated, in order to reduce visual input, but there was not an instructional message intended.
Q: Can you provide too much pre-encoding? Does it reach a point of diminishing returns—losing the novelty of fresh discovery by giving too much/outline plus notes prior to training?
Grace Chang: Yes, I think there are diminishing returns. You definitely do risk people tuning out if you give them too much preparatory information. Also, once people have a basic organization in their head to link to new learning, there isn't a significant benefit to keep providing that type of information. Also, you have to consider time constraints. We only have so much time to devote to material. If you're spending so much time rehashing things, you're not spending the time on other things.
Q: What is deep learning?
Josh Davis: Thanks for the question. That is intended to me learning that makes a meaningful change for someone. That definition does not provide specific criteria, but it is meant to communicate that it is learning that leads to neural change, & ultimately new habit.
Q: Is there a point where you can build in too many attempts at trying to build insight, where there is not enough time for the brain to work on it or uses too much energy. Is there a rule of thumb?
Josh Davis: I would say that timing is best determined by paying close attention to which of the four faces of insight the trainee(s) is displaying. If they are in reflection, give them time before the next one.
